#009: From Archaeology to Breathwork: Unveiling Creativity with Jane Baldwin

What words of wisdom would you have for somebody that is maybe in the early stages of their creativity? Um Rhyme. This is something I came up with. I use in my compass. It's time that is savored is invested rather than spent. Hi, this is Maddox and I'm Dwight. And you are listening to the, for the Love of Creatives podcast. Today, we've got a special guest that's gonna share her creative journey with us, Jane Baldwin. Welcome to the podcast, White and Maddox. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. It's just an honor to have you here. Jane. Jane always brings the most fabulous eyewear to any situation. Mm So, um I'm gonna let you introduce yourself because I think you can do a much better job of that than I can tell you. Tell whatever you'd like to tell about yourself as a creative. I am Jane Baldwin, former archaeologist. Um I used to uh dig for uh lost and hidden treasures in the American Southwest and in the jungles of Belize and Guatemala. And now I help people find the lost and hidden treasures that they've forgotten inside of them. Um And I have a, I teach a 12 week Mindfulness accelerator course in groups. I teach breathwork and meditation at breathe meditation and wellness in Dallas. And thats what I do. And I absolutely wake up every day loving my life. Yes. And you bring such a fun style to everything you do. I'm always excited to see how Jane's gonna be dressed when we're at some social function. Love it, love it, love it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, let's start off in the beginning. I would love to know, you know, how you um Well, I guess first of all, what would you say is the, the area where creativity really shows up for you, the strongest, the part that you really identify as a creative. Well, the important part here is that I never, I never saw myself as creative and I never wanted to be considered a creative for a long time. Um because to me, creative people were just real flighty and flaky and um inconsistent and they didn't know how to measure things, they didn't live life by measuring and um it just felt unsafe to me. I, I wanted, I needed um structure and I needed things that were measurable and I just the idea of, of not having that um just, it made me sick to my stomach, believe it or not. So I have quite a trajectory, quite a character arc there because when I look back, so that is one of the reasons. So I went to college at the University of Texas Austin and I was majoring in international studies and, you know, lived in Mexico and Guatemala. And I just, I was learning the language and I just wanted to travel, I love to travel and um I just wanted to do something where I was traveling all the time and I ended up uh doing archaeology um going on an archaeological field school, graduating with a degree in Latin American studies. So not archaeology, but Latin American studies with an emphasis in anthropology. And so I went and lived in a Guatemalan village and studied uh just did some ethnography work and studied weavers and um how capitalism was a very much a part of their society. And it showed the imbalances there, you know, because, because then the men were the only ones that could speak Spanish, the women still spoke their native language. And so there was a real power imbalance and the men were using it to keep the women in control. And so it's like wherever you go, right. I, I think I was trying to get away from uh these imbalances but they're everywhere. And so um so then I ended up going to uh I started uh an MB A program I kept trying to make myself do these things. You know, I started an MB A program literally got sick to my, I could not even complete in a semester and um, met in, just like, at the university. I was in El Paso. I was at up at this point and I met, um for grad school and I met the professor of, um, archaeology there and he was, and he said, oh, you know, he knew that he knew the guy from UT because, um El Paso UTE is a part of the UT system. So he knew the guy I'd gone to Belize with, they were like buddies. So he's like, you should come work for me and the, and the, and they just, he got this. So the thing about El Paso New Mexico, Arizona, the Southwest is you can work as an archaeologist. They're, they need um archaeologists. And so he hired me um they had a job in New Mexico. Um It was um they were running the, the line, the, the telephone line like the fiber optic line and they made it all the way through New Mexico to the place, the main operating place where you, they plugged in the final fiberglass line and it just happened to be on top of an ancient burial ground. And so like my first job with him was excavating for six months. We were just working to collect as much information as we could and get, then get all of these um you know, all these bodies properly buried and given back to the, the their proper homes and their tribes. Uh so this work could continue. So I learned a lot about, about that, about repatriation. And um I also learned, I just remember waking up one morning, I was on top of a mesa and beautiful. And the um near it was in the Mires Valley, which is in the, in the southwest part, closer to Arizona, so beautiful. And I just remember waking up one morning and I'm, I'm working outside and I was like, this is what I want to do. I just want to be outside. I just want to work outside. And so I continued that and then there was a woman there that said, you know, if you as a woman want to ever be because, you know, the guy I worked for was not an archaeologist. He was just like a, a dirt thrower that filled out paperwork. But she was like, you'll never get his job as a woman. You have to have a master's degree. And so I went to um New Mexico State University and got my master's degree. And while I was there, um I met uh an archaeologist that uh she was, she and I were almost the same age because she had gone all the way through and gotten her phd at UCL A. And um now she's the foremost, she's just a, the, the bomb on uh maya archaeology. But um so I became, she became my chair and I worked with her in Belize and we did all this initial stuff together in the late nineties. And um so my point with that whole story is I thought, I thought I wasn't creative. I tried to fight it, but I ended up, archaeology is an extremely, you have to be extremely creative, right? You have to come up with these i these um you, you find these artifacts and you piece together a story. You have to really use your imagination to tell a story. And to be honest, the, the one with the best imagination is the one that gets the grants because you know, everybody, you can, you can have six different people look at the same artifacts and they're gonna each come up with a different story. But the one that can paint the biggest picture is the one that's gonna get the grant money. And so that I learned a lot. So I, I was uh I didn't realize that that was what was going on until I looked back on it. Um And was like, oh, that was an extremely creative thing. I did. Absolutely. No, we did. I think it's interesting how you were able to see those power imbalances as you were studying what was happening with the uh the native people in Guatemala, Aachi Kaya. Yeah. Yeah. And how you were confronted with the same thing as you were, you know, so far removed from it, you know, pursuing your education. It's like someone held up a mirror. And echoed exactly what you saw in the past. Yeah. Yes, very true. I mean, pretty unbelievable. So, you know, I, I will say I left Guatemala like before what I was, you know, I was an undergrad and I was like, you know, capitalism down with capitalism. I left there and I was like, I'm a capitalist because I understand the system. I understand um how, how you build a brand and um just by just by living here, right? Not, not the, not the details of building a brand, but just how your, your stuff has to be of great quality. And if it's a great quality, you can sell it for more things like that, that they had. No, and they were trying to break into a market and that um that I see, you know, even 20 years ago when Guatemalan textiles were, you know, just really, you know, at first coming on the scene and a big deal. And um and so it was very interesting um to watch to go like, no, no, no, no, that's, you know, they're just in their little thing trying to learn how to do it. And it's like, oh man, um it's a lot, right? It takes, it takes a lot more than just the weavings, great. Um the weavings that they do is wonderful. But the q you know, you also have to have the quality there to really sell it on a mass market. And so I realized I was a capitalist. I understood a lot more about it than I, than I would give myself credit for at the time. So I learned lots of big realizations. You're a capitalist and a creative. That's right. And, and here I am now as a coach, you know, it's like I, I love your part of the story about, you know, if you're gonna get the grant, you've got to take that artifact and use your imagination. I would have never, I don't know anything about architecture. You read all kinds of architectural finds and things like this. But this is the first time I've ever heard an inside story where I would have said, well, where would creativity be in digging up old things? But I had no idea that in order to get the grants to keep digging up old things, you had to create these wonderful stories. What a fascinating part of your journey that, that's such a good point. And I, so it made me think of how, so I teach breathwork. Now, currently, we're creating a breathwork uh uh training program at Breathe will be rolling out in 2025 and it, there's gonna be no uh I don't know any other breathwork training program like this because it's gonna be fundamental. So we're gonna show a whole array of types of breathwork, not just one specific one, which is very exciting, but it was through breathwork and training and breathwork doing breathwork for many years being in a, being in a space of psychological safety with the breathwork that allowed me to really explore my feelings. And one of the biggest moments for me because I just refused, I just couldn't let go. I, I had too much invested in the idea of um that science and, and imperial thinking, empirical thinking. Um imperial thinking. That's funny, empirical thinking. Um That was it like that just I needed the proof. I needed the solid. And so I wa I was afraid to let go of, of some uncertainty around that and the soft ground. And um I was in breathwork one time and um I thought about uh Walt Disney and I was like, everything he does like everything he does is imagination. Like he's the one that brought it on the scene in the fifties. Like I know all of his characters, all the stories they've inspired me, the colors Bambi was my, was one of my first memories and I'm like, how can I invalidate that? You know, so that was a big, that was a big moment for me. And you know what it was is it was while I was doing the breath work, I think it was my the guy I trained under was saying something about how imagination is the seed of every idea. Like it, it happens in the immaterial. It ha anything even babies happen immateriality before they materialize, right? And so um that, that really changed me. Yeah, I think imagination is huge in, in every aspect of it. I mean, you're right. We have to imagine it before we can actually manifest it or create it. And that is why. So I created this tool called the unwinding compass that I teach as a mindfulness tool. And one of the points of the compass um explore is all about, it's explore with curiosity and we take this process inward. But the whole thing about that is with without, without curiosity, it's like two D I mean, you're noticing your breath, you're noticing things, but you bring in curiosity and it's 3d all of a sudden. Now I have curiosity. Now, what I say in my practice is I have people say, where can I soften lengthen, open widen? Now, I'm curious about myself, right? And you can take that out in the world and say, you know, then I mean, you can use soften length and open wide and I do on everything. Um Where can I soften this thought? Where can I soften this action that I'm doing or, you know, where can I lengthen uh my perspective on this? I mean, I use it in, in every way. But the it really helps me and I've seen one of my clients as I go out into the world. Then that curiosity just starts to become a part of you more of a practice, more of something you do every day. You know, I, I have a recent experience of that. I, I've been a curious person all my life, I've always asked lots of questions and overturned stones. But when Dwight and I got together, he shared with me the concept of showing up with curiosity in everything we do, literally coming to the table with curiosity. And I never, even though I, I kind of naturally did that in some ways, he's, it, it's just a nuance somehow that he's introduced me to that has been really quite profound, you know, e even when we get, you know, out of sorts with each other and uh we're trying to sort through that. Um I've learned to show up with curiosity and it makes that process easier. I'm so grateful to have that nuance that I, I didn't have. Um I love that you brought that to the conversation though, the curiosity, it's huge. It really, it really is a doorway. I mean, it's a doorway. Well, and, and I feel like it's something that we lose because of how we're, we're trained to show up in the world as adults. There's a script that we follow. And uh when we remember what it was like to be a small child, all that you had was uh what it is that you could imagine. And you know, the questions that you could ask to try to figure things out and you just wanted to understand. So you would ask, whereas I think that a lot of people are on guard because the tendency is to look at questions as a way of being evaluated, judged. Mhm. Yeah, definitely are trained to um, not ask questions after a while. It's, it's a shame because that's just the way we, thats the way we connect is through asking questions and showing well, you know, and from one perspective and it is a shame but also it is happening. And so how we can kind of make that lemon out of lemonade is see where it's brought us and it's brought us to this chronic state of stress. And so, you know, so I've seen people through what I do, what I teach people coming into the meditation studio or getting in touch with me online. It's like they, they don't, they can't do it anymore and they need an answer and that's, you know, it, it does, it is terrible that we've had to do this. But the beautiful thing is there is a way out and that is finding those communities like you're creating and like I'm creating that are these environments that support these ideas and um and, and cultivate the reality that really is um imbalance. Like what is imbalance is a, is that that softening, right? Curios bringing in curiosity um bringing in that awareness of the breath and, and the, the the signs that your body is telling you that tension, the, the, the anxiety that's your body saying, hey, hey, you know, I need a break. And so bringing that in as having those awarenesses and then being able to bring it back with things like curiosity, imagination plays, taking small steps, doing it, having a group full of people that support you and cheer you on and acknowledge you be a part of your life I found. So you've had quite a variety of experiences and when you were doing your work, studying the uh the structures of community in Guatemala, um What uh what do you draw from that time? Uh As youve uh moved on through life? Um Well, I think that I seeing I came out of that really wanting to be able to speak Spanish because I think it's important to have a, have a second language no matter what because I, I think I mentioned this before. But I saw the men keep the language away from the women because that was the only way that they really had power over them because they really did everything else. And so um uh there, there was just, you know, the thing about this village that we lived in and uh that I want to mention is it was on Lake Atitlan and at the time it was the only village left that didn't have a road to it. I don't know if you know the terrain in Guatemala but it's, it's peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys, very high. Volcano. It, this is a volcano, a lake, it's like the deepest lake in the world that came, you know, one of, besides the Lake Baikal where they, they don't really know, there's an area but they can't find the depth. So it's really deep with really high volcanoes. Everything's very steep, hard to get to. Um, you know, the, the guys would, the, everything came in on a boat and it was the first stop from Potash, the, the main uh city. Um But the, the, the uh guys would have like a, you know, the old wooden coke bottle, uh carrier things. They'd have a stack of like 11 of them, right? All the way up their back. And then the women would have like all the way up their head and they go up a hill that's like a 8075 degree angle, you know, and these people were about to get um a road to their village. So, I mean, I heard stories of women holding babies that died in their arms and cry, you know, cried until they died while they're waiting for uh medicine from the capital. Solo Law. You know, they're really forgotten group of people. And so I have not been back since the road was built in. But I think the anthropologist I went with really was like, oh a and he spoke the language. He had been an anthropologist for years. But he also, I felt like it was like, oh, we're going to get a, get an experience with an I, an untouched village. Yeah, that was kind of the thing we were sold on. And, um, there's really no such thing as that. Number one and number two, those are the forgot, forgotten people. You know, those are the, that are suffering the most. And, um, so, uh, and I don't, I don't know what a ro, if a road helped them or, or not, I can only imagine that it probably helped some people for sure. But I, I learned a lot about um it, it did take the blinders off of like, oh, we're gonna go live in this, you know, idyllic village that speaks Kachi kill. I mean, they were in poverty and they suffered and they couldn't get their medicines. And um so it was um meanwhile, you know, here's the other thing is that village spoke a specific um dialect of Koi, no one else spoke. So they couldn't even communicate really well. Other villages were like, oh, those are the hicks, right? Uh You know, everyone looked down on them and um so they didn't, they didn't have a lot of exchange with the outside world at all. And um you know, other villages nearby, we just like the ones National Geographic's at that are having the big fiestas, you know, open any Guatemalan National Geographic and you know, lots of colors and people dancing around. I mean, those are the villages that have all the money, they have the tourism, they have high quality textiles that they can sell and co ops. Um But I will also tell you they were, when I was there, they were also in still in their civil war. So the other thing I heard horror stories of men getting tortured from the men that had lived it. And so, um they were coming out of a really terrible, terrible time in, in their, in their, their country's uh the legacy of their country as well. So it was a real eye opener as far as, you know, going to a idyllic country, which was great. It, it, your experiences with community and all that you did in those foreign countries. How does that, how did that or does that affect your ability to connect now with community as, as a admitted creative? You know, I'm kind of hearing you say that maybe one of your biggest challenges was just coming to a place where you could own that. You were creative. Yeah, that's, I think, and I wanted to call that out because I think that's true for a lot of us. I think that, you know, maybe we paint but we're really reluctant to say I am an artist or, or maybe we do something else. We're a sculptor or, or we're a dancer and we're, we're reluctant to own. Yeah, I heard so many people say I'm not creative. Well, that's a lie. We're all creative. I think there's something magical that happens when we can own that. Do you, can you, can you speak to what might have changed when you were really willing to own that you were created and then kind of slide on into that, that community piece that I asked about a moment ago. Yeah. So, um uh well, it was in a writing community that I started owning that I was a creative because um I love to write. I've always written poems. I, you know, I, I was writing, I had a book that I'm gonna finish soon. I'm collecting case studies for, but for a long time, I had this idea for a story and um I became part of this group. They were like, we, you should write your story and you know, and then it became like, OK, so, so you're writing. So when you step out, um now you tell people I'm a writer and I was like, but am I like, I haven't, I don't have a New York Times best seller. Can I really call myself a writer? I don't have like a published book. Well, guess what turns out I have articles published from undergraduate, graduate school. I have poems pub. I was discounting all of that because it wasn't it to my standard of what? I don't know what I, I mean. Really? I think I was like, when I see myself on the New York Times best seller list. I will say I'm a writer, I'm an author. Like I really think, you know, how our brain does. I, it just creates those obstacles for us like that. We, we set some super high standards for ourselves, don't we? And so when I started saying it felt weird at first of course, but I had proof I had, I had a book with my name on it, an article with my name on it, you know, uh uh that where my short story had been published or whatever. And um and I, but it still felt weird until it till it does it right. And then I could say, yeah, I'm a writer, I'm a writer, I'm a poet. Um I'm a coach even like, uh I think every creative skin has felt awkward at first and I think that's ok. We just have to let that be ok. You know, it's gonna feel that way till it's not, you know, this thing you can be whatever you want early to start. And it sounds like you had a, an uncomfortable relationship with your own successes because as you called out, you know, you, you had uh you had a lot of the markings that would uh let anyone know that you were a writer, but because they didn't measure up to your standard, you, you could not, you could not acknowledge it. You know, it's so much easier to, to play small. It just is easy to. It's just, and it can feel comfortable if the conditions, you know, that you grow up with, um, are, are there for that. And um, it, it was again, you know, really through breathwork where it was like, you know, expand beyond, like, use the breath to expand beyond what, you know, who, who you think you are, you know, and then you start to realize like you're in this place of breathing and imagining and you're like, well, actually I have always wanted to write, I have always wanted to, you know, coach people teach the breathwork, whatever. Um And then it's like, oh, what if, what if that was a possibility just play with that. Like nobody's making, you make a decision just like what if? And then so it's like, ok, I'll just try it. I'll just, I'll just say I, you know, I'm a, I'm a coach. I, I'm a meditation teacher. I teach breathwork. Um, I, I think something inside of us shifts when we do that, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. The minute we finish that I am statement something shifts and it's big. I can still feel it when I say it right now to you. It's like a wave washes over me. It's like a, it's visceral feeling, isn't it? I, I'm still, you know, resetting, I think every, every day I, you know, every day you have to wake up and reset in some way. Um, especially as you get older and there you were in a chronic pattern for a long time. That wasn't probably in your best interests. Um It's a, it's an everyday reset and it just, you have to get back in those shoes and grow from there. I love that. So I'm going to rephrase my question. I've rethought it. And the question now is how has community played a role in your evolution? That's a great story. So, uh my husband and I lived in Dallas in the early two thousands and he uh among other things, but is a singer songwriter. And uh he had a music video as a shoot for um one of his music videos. And through that, the, the set for the music video was this 1939 Hosi and um up on a cliff overlooking the Brazas River, beautiful. It looks like it looked like an old movie set, but it actually was a man built it in 1939. He had horses and cattle and would, and would have people from the city out from Dallas and Fort Worth their functions and do the roping. And he made horseshoes. He was one of the original, like he learned from settlers and native Americans in the early 19 hundreds, how to do all these things. So he, it was like, he was a showman out there of his own stuff. And um so we found all that out and uh found out that this place was decrepit, the guy that owned it. Uh He was upside down and he, it went on foreclosure and we just bought it. It was so we were like, ok, we own a little ha, you know, a Hacienda. It turned out to be a uh a Delbeck. Um, the architect, the, the Dallas architect Delbeck, we found out and so it's got um Spanish tile roof, a 4000 ft great room overlooking the Brazas River with like 2 12 ft um fireplaces on either end and Italian tile that had been flown in, flown in in the maybe not flown in, but it was Italian tile just shipped in in the thirties. Um So it was just incredible. It was just this frozen in time stuck in time when we had became friends with people out in mineral wells. They, they had, hadn't ever, didn't even know it existed. So it just, just like was lost in time. It was like a, an archaeology, did you know treasure temple? Um And we moved out there and opened it up as an art ranch and we had it had 26 rooms and we took out a whole wall of rooms. So probably five or six rooms. We just busted the walls out and made an art gallery, uh built a yoga studio upstairs. Um uh Jimmy would have, he would be Jimmy and friends. Any musicians traveling to South by Southwest or moving through, coming through town would come and have a show on the weekend. So we created in our community. I tell you, it was right there that I was like, OK, I'm into art. Like that's when I really started to realize, I, I love artists. They're my people. You know, these are, this is who I wanna be around, this is who I'm comfortable with. And you know, and that's, that's what we, so we supported that We had writers come out and write books um that are, are on the New York Times best seller list at our place. We had, we had all kinds of writers and artists and musicians come for eight years there. It was a real hub, a real center and uh we created that community for that. And um it, yeah, there's just, that's, that's it for me. So take it a little bit of further. How did all of that impact you as a creative? It sounds absolutely amazing. But paint us a little bit of a picture personally how that grew you and affected your creativity. Well, rubbing shoulders with people who are really doing it and living as creatives, rubbing shoulders with them as friends, having conversations with them and realizing that we're on the same wavelength that we love, the same things that we enjoy each other's company. That's what really convinced me that, that the creative world was, was my world too. And um uh one of the things when we actually did sell it and leave was one of the things that I had I thought is I loved holding space for creatives. I absolutely did. But I also felt like it was my turn to be a creative and it wasn't, it wasn't like it wasn't an easy decision. Um But that was part of the exchange with that with letting it go was ok. Now, you're not just the one holding space for creatives anymore. You actually are a creative, so go live your creative life. Wow, that sounds like that was such an impactful chrysalis for you. I, I remember what you shared about how you felt about creatives before. Not reliable, not a safe place, flaky. Like uh just nothing you wanted to have anything to do with. And you, you got to, to grow to the other side of that. That's amazing. You know, my husband uh works in advertising and I met him at a wedding in Santa Fe when I was getting in grad school in Las Cruces. And um he was the first, I was 26 when we mett and he was the first guy that ever handed me a business card. I felt like it. And, and I went, it was the first time I was like, someone creative has a business card, someone creative has like a real job that they're getting a paycheck. Like I, I just had this, I mean, I was just like, they never, they they work intermittently. They don't, they're not consistent. Oh, I lived in Austin. Right. For, for years after, before college, after college. And the, the story is, what do you call a musician that just broke up with his girlfriend? What? Homeless that I was like. Yeah, that trash. Like, I'm like, oh, that's hysterical. I had, like, no respect for art. I was like, oh, so flighty and flaky and bouncy just looking for the next free meal. Yeah, I, and then I, I met Jimmy and I was like, oh, ok. There's, there's a whole other side of this. I don't even know you made him a meal, right? And I made him what I want. Ok, my gosh, that's awesome. I love that. Absolutely. Love that Dwight. Do you have anything else you'd like to, to ask? You know, I, I think that we've covered a lot of ground. I mean, what a beautiful story. II, I think it's, it's really amazing and should be food for thought for, for anyone that might hear it. But I, I think that we've covered quite a bit. We have and I know you Jane and now I just know you a lot better in a nuanced way. But wow, some of this was the first, some of it. I have heard little bits and pieces of it before but, um, never put together so beautifully as this was. Um, thank you for that. I, I haven't ever thought about my story like this. So I thank you for that and, and really never put into words like that, you know, that that character arc of going from like, you know, couldn't stand to like, love them to. I am one of them like, I guess. Yes, yes, we are family. Yes. So we've comprised uh um three rapid fire questions for rapid fire answers. Are you down? Let's go. Cool. All right. Question number one. What's a creative risk? You're glad you took, uh, starting coaching during COVID? Nice. You know, I, I knew that you were a coach but I didn't know that you started during COVID. So more that I'm discovering. That's amazing. Alright. Second question. How does community fuel your creativity? A community is the base of exchange, its um, its acknowledgements, safety. It's a beautiful mirror Stokes the fire. Hm, I love the mirror part. I really resonate with that. I like all of it, but I really resonate with the mirror. Yeah. When we have people reflecting back to us who we are as a creative. Yeah. Beautiful Jane and final question. I like this one. This one's fun. What's your creative spirit animal? Well, caught you off guard, didn't it? Yes, because I wanna make up an animal. But, um, I have a, I have a mule deer skull hanging on my, over my mantle that I, when I was doing archaeology in uh, the southeast corner of Colorado found and I was with five men and they were mad that I found it and not them, they said, you know, we're not going to carry it out for you. And I was like, you know what, you're not gonna touch this. You don't get to touch this. And I, I hiked with it all day, carried it out and I just feel like it just gave me so much, you know, just connected me so much with nature. And, um, so it's some, I think it's like a mule deer, unicorn maybe. Oh, I like it for you. I love the hat horns and a horn. I don't know. A horn. Yes. Would that be a triple horn? Yes, this wasn't on the docket, but I'm being inspired in the moment to just to ask one more question. And that is, um, what words of wisdom would you have for somebody that is maybe in the early stages of their creativity? Um, r this is something I came up with I use in my compass. It's time that is savored is invested rather than spit snaps. Yes, snaps. Would you say it again? I really want everybody to get this. Just give it a, it's all mine that is savored is invested rather than spent. Oh my gosh. Wow. Thats powerful. Ok. Theres a writer thats a jane quote that needs to go somewhere prominent website, book your forehead. Something I love that. I need a tattoo. A tattoo. Yeah, maybe not on your forehead. But Jane, this has been such a pleasure and an honor. Thank you so much for opening up and sharing your heart and your story with us and our listeners. Well, I hope you guys so much and what you're doing and how you're bringing so much love in the world and so much support for creatives. It's very needed and um I appreciate it so much. I just love you. Thank you. We love you too. Yes, we do.