#008: Saying Yes to the Unknown Leads to Big Adventures for Michael Alves

I'm just saying, you know, I could have just been bitter and jealous and, you know, not seeing them as allies, I guess. Right. So, I, I really, you know, your themes are community for creatives. Um just because they're out there working the same venues and jobs that my band was and probably getting some of the better gigs from us. You know, that doesn't mean they need to be like that. We're not against them, we should be with them, right? I'm Dwight and I'm joined by Maddox and our special guest, Michael Alvez. You're in for another episode of, for The Love of Creatives. Um Michael, I am so glad that you could join us today. I'm quite happy to be here. It's uh it's really kind of uh special the way that, that we have known each other. We've known each other for years. We met in our church community. And uh I have always marveled at how you have been able to balance a whole host of talents. I mean, in addition to being a musician, you're a maker, you, you are an educator. Um you, um and most of all, you, you've always been someone that's easy with a smile and, and you have such a big heart. Well, that's, that's a nice thing to say. And I would, I would turn that around on you. I would say you were very welcoming, uh, person at church. And, you know, I'm thinking of a discussion. We had about some pretty tense stuff where we skip church. You know, that was a nice introduction to. I hope it will be a AAA lifelong friendship. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm also pleased to beat Maddox who I don't know, play as well. It's great to meet you too, Michael. And, and thank you so much for your willingness to support and participate in this. Well, and I, I've teased just a little bit about, uh, some of your creative pursuits but, uh, I think it would be really helpful if you could share in your own words, a bit of your creative journey. Well, um, you know, I'm not, I'm not a big astrologist but, uh, I, I am a Gemini so I kind of kind of think of myself in two ways. I think of myself, you know, outside of my family life, I think about my work as a musician. I've been playing electric bass since I was 13 years old. Um, that's one of those connections that, that you could talk about. I had a teacher who I played cello, uh, growing up as a child, uh, from about the age of 10 and um, I had a teacher walk into a classroom one time and said he needed, this was in middle school and told me that I, I, he wanted me to play bass in his jazz band and I really thought, like, I, I have no idea what you just said. Right. It was so foreign to me. And, um, it's one of those times where I'm just glad I'm, like I said, yes to it. And so I've been playing uh music for a long time and I quite enjoy it a lot. Um I've had many roles. I went to college at University of North Texas, wound up getting a minor in music and a degree in English. And I played in Irving symphony orchestra for 16 years. Um which kind of sounds fancier than it really is. Um But it was a lot of fun and I made a lot of connections with people, met lots of classical music players through that and that's really been a benefit to me in a number of ways. Uh I started playing rock bands probably in high school. I've always kind of been in or out of a rock band right now. I'm kind of more out than in uh but I'm working on a couple of projects so there's the kind of music side of me. Uh I've been lucky enough uh enough to, to play gigs in almost every uh venue in Dallas. Um You know, with the exception of the New Longhorn Ballroom, which I think is great. And I hope to get a gig there and I still haven't played the Kessler either. But, and then, so I realized, uh, soon in college that I wanted to eat. Right. So I started pursuing something to kind of have a day job. Um, so I started teaching English, um, and I've taught high school for 30 years now. And, um, another one of those weird things, one time, the principal at a school where I was teaching, called me into her office and said, we need you to teach this engineering course. And I was like, I, I didn't even know we had an engineering course at the school, right? And it was selective class. And um she told me a little bit about what it was and it was kind of like the teacher who asked me to play electric bass and jazz band. I had no idea. Then I just said, yeah. Well, my first question was because I was an English teacher at any time in this class. Am I going home with like 100 essays to read? Um And she said, no, and I said, I'll take it, I'll just take it whatever it is, you know, I'll figure it out later. Um And through that, I learned how to do c ad I learned about 3D printing. Um And I'd already been kind of a maker um subscribe to make magazine, which I think is a great way to get ideas. And so that just kind of took what was a hobby into, like now that's what I do. Like, that's what I do with the current school I teach. So I was really lucky in that respect. Um, and then, um, just, you know, I try, I'm, I'm right now I'm working with some of my cousins. Uh, um, I have grand, my great grandparents were missionaries in um Turkey and they were witness to the Armenian genocide. Um So that's a long story there. Um However, I have copies of my great grandmother's memoirs that she wrote during the time we're digitizing them. Um Some uh we have interest at the center for our median studies which is out of the University of Michigan. Um So they may want to help us publish this. So it's almost like that English degree is now like proving its worth. I think so. Uh But I'm using A I because the, the copies are very poor. Uh The, the scans that we have. Um it's a long story on that, but I'm using A I to correct a lot of the grammar because when the scans go into the computer, they're all just a bunch of garbled, you know, words and uh the A I will just clean it right up. And so that's kind of like, I'm, I'm very lucky that these are my pursuits. I, I can't say that enough. Right. That, um we live in a time where in the age of information and everybody kind of, you know, I think with the election and everything or, or are concerned about A I and, you know, social media, but I also feel like they can be forces for change and in, within yourself. Um So does that answer that question about? Yeah, what, what a journey, I mean, a lot of highs and lows and some unexpected twists and turns. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of glad to be able to honor um my, you know, my great grandparents um work um for human rights basically. And it was, yeah, that was a very difficult time. And there's some passages in the memoirs that are very hard, you know. So I'm glad and I am, I'm also glad because there are people that deny that this has ever happened and we're kind of living in this world where, you know, what the strangest fiction now becomes fact and I'm just like, nope, I've got pictures, I've got letters, I've got, you know, so there, that's where we are. Yeah. Uh That's really amazing that uh that you could OK have a hand in, in bringing the uh the experiences of your, your ancestors to, to light, you know, especially in this time when there is a lot of craziness, a lot of misinformation. Wow. But with all of the things that you've done, you know, I, I can see that there's, you've gotten a chance to play and a whole lot of different, different areas. I mean, uh, the, the things that you've done with music, uh, would be, um, you know, there, there are a lot of, a lot of aspiring artists that would love to have a chance to, uh, just have a moment to grace some of the stages that you've been on. Yeah, I, I would, I, I feel very lucky that I've got, you know, I had a really big gig a couple of years ago at the Granada, which is a, you know, really nice stage. Um, and that was a, you know, that was a bucket list venue for me and, and that was really through, um, you know, another band, another band that a band, you know, is it, I, I put together a band called Oliver's Army, which I'm a really big Elvis Costello fan and I just decided one day that I, I was 30 years old and I never played any of his music live. So I wanted to rectify that by putting a band together. And I thought to myself, ok, that's gonna only last like two gigs out of, you know, we'll, we'll put a list together 20 songs, we'll play two gigs and then I could say that part is done, but it wound up lasted 15 years. So, um, so through that, you know, we've met a lot of bands and, and, and, and you know, Ellis Costello is kind of a well respected musician's musician, I think, you know. Um, so we'd have like, all these bands say, oh, like we should do something together, we should do something and I would call and follow up and nothing would ever really happen except for this one band called Campus Radio. And really bunch of talented musicians were they just, we, we just became friends, kind of like, you know, social media friends talking to one another, going to each other's gigs. Um And uh through that, through them, um two of the guys in my band actually subbed, they had a huge gig, but two of their guys are gonna be out of town and I was kind of jealous, right? I was like, man, I, you know, I wanna play that gig too, right? But they already had a bass player and he wasn't going out of town and he's actually a really nice guy and, you know, so I kind of got a little bit bitter about it really. And then, you know, um you know, chilled out a little bit and so much later they called me for the gig that I played at the, at the um the Granada and a couple of and another gig. And so, and then we're gonna be playing the Oliver's Army band is getting back together and we're gonna play the same venue with them, right? Hopefully in March. So I'm just saying, you know, I could have just been bitter and jealous and, you know, not seeing them as allies, I guess. Right. So, I, I really, you know, your themes are community for creatives, um, just because they're out there working the same venues and jobs that my band was in, probably getting some of the better gigs from us. You know, that doesn't mean they need to be like that. We're not against them, we should be with them, right? And so, and all those guys are just so nice too. And um to just, you know, every time they play, it's just they, they, you know, they do, the campus radio band does like stuff from the eighties and nineties and it's just like, so spot on good um, that, you know, I really need to see that as something to aspire to rather than to, you know, feel bad about. So, and that's kind of one of the things that I'm seeing a theme emerge to ask about because I think that it's played, uh, what I'm seeing is played a really big role in your creative life. You've mentioned several things now where opportunities were, you were presented with opportunities that were like foreign and completely out of your wheelhouse and you took advantage of those opportunities and I'm looking at what that has led you to all of that has brought about in your life because you said yes to something that 99% of the world would have said no to because they would have thought, I don't know anything about that. I did that for a minute. I can't, I think I have to give you the best example of that. I really haven't given you that. Um, and I can tell you my thought process when I was in high school. Um, I was at a very, what would we call like an under resourced school in Austin LBJ high school. I don't mean to paint it any differently. It was under resource because it was also under enrolled. We, we didn't, there were classrooms in this high school that they were just empty. And my orchestra teacher who I dearly love, we're still friends to this day. Um She was also my orchestra teacher in middle school. We had like eight people in the whole orchestra, right? The whole string section was like eight people, two cellist bass and you know, violins and violas. Well, the, the, the girl who played bass dropped out of school, which is, I guess I should laugh about that, right. But she dropped out of school. And so my orchestra director came to me, uh her name is Susan Williams. She came to me and said, well, you're already playing electric bass, you're gonna have to be the guy that plays, you know, upright bass, the big, huge upright bass, which there's really no similarity between those two instruments other than their, they both have the name bass, right. The, the big upright bass as a whole, it's an unwieldy instrument to, to learn, uh, it's got a long learning curve, different fingering. Um, it sounds an octave below anyway. So I was really mad about that. Right. Because I thought I was, I was doing well on the cello and now I was gonna have to switch to bass just because, you know, somebody else made a choice. But, you know, years later because, because she made me do that. I, you know, I went to North Texas and played classical bass and then I got into the urban symphony. So immediately when I got hired, I called, I was like, well, I guess you were. Right. Right. Because now I'm making 2 to 3 grand a year playing this instrument, you know. But, uh, um, yeah, I don't know. I, I, you know, I hope that, that the one thing, you know, I would tell people is when you're presented an opportunity to do something outside your wheelhouse, you know, we have the internet now. Right. Right. You have support systems built in, you probably carrying the, the device that could tell you immediately, um, some things about how to do it. I, I often tell my students, it's like, how did we learn anything before youtube? Right. Because like, you know, there's a youtube tutorial for everything now. It might not be the best one. Right. But it is a go to resource so, you know, but once again youtube is not going to tell you how to be a nice person. Right. It's not, you, you, you know, I mean, like, I probably was, well, I was, I was 15 when I was told that I had to play the upright bass. I probably didn't take that message that well. Right. But, uh, and hopefully I've matured since then, but, you know, all of the vast majority of the things that I enjoy doing, I enjoy doing with other people, right? And so you have to be an approachable person, right? You have to say I will try to do this, right? I got a call from those campus radio guys. They asked me to sub uh substitute play base and they're, oh, they have an Oasis band, right? I'm not a big Oasis fan. I know four of their songs and I was gonna have to play for an hour and a half. Right. So, I mean, I just, you know, the parts aren't hard but they're unfamiliar. So, and we had a short ramp up time. And so I just said, hey, I can do this, but I gotta have an ipad. So, you know, I can read the actual notes that I'm supposed to be playing with you guys. And if that you, if you think that's gonna detract, I understand it. But I'm not gonna, you know, it's not gonna be, it's not gonna work unless I have that. So you have to have to kind of ask for what you need as a follow up, right? Like this is the support that I need from you to do what we're going to try to do well together, right? Like, you know, like the conversations pre this podcast that we had, you know, I needed things, you needed things, you know, we want to do a, everybody here on this here wants to do a good job. So you kind of gotta look at it that a band is a small community. You know, you're, you're just talking about some form of community. III I think that we fail to realize sometimes that we're in so many communities in any given day that we, we don't even realize it. You know, your family is a community, your coworkers and your workplace is a community. And if you go to a church that's a community and uh we're involved in many, many communities without really thinking that we, I kind of like we take it for granted, I think. Yeah. And I think one thing the pandemic laid bare is that when we lost the connections between people, right? Among people that was really hard to deal with. And I think personally that kind of killed a lot of creative endeavors unfortunately, right? But I think we're still struggling to get, I don't think we did everything and I see it in the girls that I teach at uh sin. Right. They just don't know. I mean, I'm not mad at them. Right. We did the best that we could do in the situation we had but they just don't know how to trust one another to the full extent that they can co, collaborate. You know, and I'm, I'm trying to feed that back into what I do because I think that's more, more than my subject matter. Right. It's like you're gonna go to college, you're gonna start a life, you gotta learn that, that, you know, people are a good resource for what you need to do. Right. So, and I mean, I think every educator is also feeling like that, right? We gotta put these things back because of the situation that happened and, um, you know, it's just, uh, it's, it's a problem that we, we have to face but I mean, I see it getting better over time. But man, that, that first year back when, you know, it was really tough. Yeah, it's in a full of aliens. Yeah, it was, it was, it was interesting. But I'm kind of glad. I mean, there's, you know, there's trauma bonding among teachers for that but, you know, I don't want to do it here on this podcast. But, uh, but like you said, it, it is a community, right? And, um, you know, I, I think about my wife, uh, started quilting, um, she does what's called modern quilting. Have you ever heard of the modern quilt movement. It's similar to like what the quilt is in our sanctuary rather than you, you know, if you think your stereotypical quilt is like a geometric pattern repeated and the set of squares, um they, that's not what modern quilting is. And so she attends a modern quilt guild that's here in Dallas, right? Just so she can get ideas, meet people, learn techniques. And I just think what a wonderful thing, you know, what a wonderful thing that people dedicated to making the world of beautiful place. Um And in such a practical way, like a quilt, you know, I just think, and now we have this kind of new aesthetic um that she enjoys. So it's really nice. That's awesome. Yeah, I think it's interesting the way that you um you called out how it took a certain amount of maturity for you to deal with that. Well, well, with rather unpleasant news at the age of 15 and uh you carried that lesson forward where you were, you know, given similar challenges that you had to rise up to. And uh you know, a lot of people miss out on those opportunities because because of whatever stories they tell themselves well, and I also think I'm not telling you that the misjudgments I made. Right. Right. There, there are quite a few. But uh yeah, it's, it's a hard thing though. Ego does, you know, like it as an artist, as a creator as, as anybody who, who has a persona ego does get in the way, right? And sometimes ego, like, I, I've been in bands with people that have strong egos but their leadership egos, right? Their lead. There's somebody I could back up. It's like you, you're all in, you know, I might not like your style but you're all in and, you know, you might be the leader of this band. And so this is your music and what you're writing and this is, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll try to make a part of it, right. So, I, I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but sometimes you have to like, check your ego at the door as well too. And a lot of that has to do with recording, which I haven't done a lot of recording music. Right. When you make something permanent, it, it takes on a whole another level. Right. So, you know, I don't like to go to studio situations unprepared. Um So sometimes when I'm asked to do that, like, hey, I've got, I need a, you know, I wrote this song, I need a bass part and I'm like, OK. Right. But I need to get this full on. I need to know what the chords are. You know, I need to know what the lyrics are. I need to know what the drum part is gonna sound like. And if you can't provide that, then you're, you're you're, you're not gonna get the best work out of it, right. So, I don't know if that did that answer your question about that. That's, I feel like I'm straight a little bit here. No, it's a beautiful insight. It's a beautiful insight. And I, and we really wanted to make sure that we covered the um, large field of creativity or the, the many different areas that you dabble in. And it strikes me that through our conversation throughout this podcast, we failed to mention that you are also a podcaster. Well, I didn't know if you wanted to be to promote my own podcast. But since you're asking, it's called apple sauce, apple sauced, which is uh apple sauced, like the past tense of sauces as if it were a. Uh Yes. Well, thank you for saying that that was a situation much like Matt mentioned that my friend James uh just came to me one day and he said, I want to start a podcast. This is uh right before the pandemic. And um I was like, you want to do what, why? For what purpose? And he said, well, I just feel like, and, and this is what I really um really like this insight. It's like, you know, everybody we know and, and I'm not saying I know geniuses or, or, but everybody has a fascinating story and, you know, really normal everyday people to me are completely fascinating. I mean, and through this podcast. We, we, you know, I've interviewed Reverend Cantor, like three times on there, which I'm really surprised he would do it. But, you know, it was great to have him on, um, through some connections. I, um, you interviewed the Zucker. David Zucker, who, who, who made the airplane and police, um, uh, police academy, not police academy. What's the other one? 00, my, I'm gonna mess that up. All right. Sorry. You know, I interviewed two Hollywood directors who are working. Uh And um so that, that was great. Um The reason it's called Apple Sauce is because we, we're gonna start it all as a technology podcast, which we realized was really boring, right? And so, I mean, there are technology podcasts out there that do the work there. Um And so we quickly shifted uh to just our three themes which are life, technology and beer. Um That was a James idea that we drink and rate beers during the podcast, which some, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh, man, this is kind of weird but we do it that way, you know. And uh so it's a lot of fun. Um I don't know if we're getting a large audience. I don't really think it matters to us that much more, but to have a dialogue on a certain topic with, with people with different perspectives, hit you back to that community, right? I just remember we interviewed this bee keep this beekeeper from down the street and he brought us me that he had made and that, I don't know, I had a bad experience with meat. I don't know, 1015 years ago it just tasted horrible was at a res festival. I don't know what they were. It just tasted like yeasty honey. But this meat was like, well, it was almost like a cider anyway. That was really exciting that hero. And this is during the pandemic. So any and he dropped off meat on my doorstep and then we drank meat and talked about beekeeping. Beekeeping is something. Um I do have a lot of hobbies. I thought I could probably do that. But now I've like looked into it and it's like no little, little too complicated for one, you know, but uh he was so fascinating about just the, the beauty of bees and how they construct um the, the, you know, how they give us this great product and live their own lives. Um Anyway, I just like that. That's a good example of having a dialogue with somebody who's outside of your kind of peer group, I guess. And then, and then, you know, just taking away some of the beauty of the world, I think. Well, and what a great experience for you to have with that, it forces you to get in front of people that you normally wouldn't see. And I mean, as you've described working Hollywood directors, uh a beekeeper, a fascinating mix and I think it's, uh, you're able to draw from having those experiences and weave them into your every day. Like, I mean, when you're in, in front of the, the girls at the school, um, you, you probably are able to hold their attention far better than someone that's, uh, just watching Netflix every night. Well, I, I would like to think so. I have my good days of my bad days. Uh I can give you a concrete example of something though, you know. Um, one of the courses I teach is a survey course called um A P Computer Science Principles, which is a survey of computer science issues as well as coding. And so I, one of the things that the college board thinks these girls need to learn about is licensing, right? Like Creative Commons, licensing, it, Creative Commons, licensing, licensing is really powerful tool uh for, for creators. And I, you know, if you don't know what that is, you should probably look into it. Um, it's basically a way of protecting your designs, you know, and, you know, it's for free and I don't know what kind of legal bite it has, but at least you could say like I, I have this is the creative um licensing for this. Um I actually just made one for my new apartment so I made this little rack. I don't know. I mean, it's probably not the most impressive thing. It's a rack to hold Atari 2600 cartridges. Are you cool with? All right. Um, because I have 100 and 50 of these cartridges and I need a way to store them. Um, yeah, that's a whole separate thing. And so I was explaining and it's on a website and I was explaining, like I, I made this thing, it was, took a lot of work, um, modeling it and printing it and I want other people to be able to experience it, but I don't want to take it to like Etsy. I don't want people to like start selling on Etsy my work and they they profit from it. So I was able to go into the different creative com um uh commons licensing was something that I really done. But what was more fascinating to them than any of this baloney that I just talked about was the comments people had made about my designs, right? Because it was on a website where they were giving feedback, right? Like, oh, this works. Thank you so much. And I was like, they're like these people love this. And I was like, well, that's five people. But, you know, still, you know, it was like, you've impressed somebody that's unknown and I think that kind of appeals to maybe their generation, right? How many likes did you get? How many comments or whatever? But it helped, you know, deliver this rather kind of dry stuff about licensing that's in a way that they could relate to it, I think a little bit better. So, now that, that is some good stuff, Michael. I, I like to shift gears for just a, that's right. We can shift gears. You have this vast creative life and it's all over the map. You have these great stories and it sounds like you've had absolutely a lot of fun. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I, I'm, I'm wondering in all of that, what has been the biggest challenge that you've had to overcome as a creative, the big kahuna? Well, I think it's that little, there are two voices that I try. Well, I would say three now, three voices when I'm building something, right? For myself. OK. So like I'm working on a project to be an example project for one of my classes. So that one kind of has its own timeline, right? The first thing is you have no timeline, right? You have no timeline, right? Um The second one is staying organized. Um And so I, I'm old school like I have, this is a, this is, this is my to do summer 2024 book, right? And I dedicate just to keep, keep my ideas together, right? And then the third voice I would say is that I'm in my own opinion, messed up projects that I just kept putting, I should have just been finished with it. Like, OK, now we're finished, it's, it's ready to go out into the world like I did with that creative comments. Um 3D model that I made, this is just a simple thing. I'm gonna stop. Right. I'm gonna stop it at this point and just let it release it and sometimes I've just gone on and on and on and then it's like, it's, it's a mismatch of nothingness. Um You know, and I've heard artists say that sometimes the hardest part of like a painting or a sculpture is to determine when it's actually finished. Yes. And then, and you always see the flaws, you always see the flaws. I can listen to recordings that I made 20 years ago and hear something that I sh either faked or, you know, it, it is, it's quieting that voice in your head, the voice that says it's not enough, right? Um You know, if you're working with somebody, you know, and they accept your performance or your art or you give fee, they give you feedback positive, just say thanks. Right. That's exactly what I, you know. Um And, and, you know, quiet in that voice that I'm not good enough to do this. Um My greatest challenge though, personally, for me is woodworking. I've tried to do woodworking wood to me is a very unforgiving medium, right? So I need to like, I need to quiet that voice that says you're gonna instantly be good at woodworking, right? Because I think we live in this age of immediacy and I think that's another challenge as well. Now, you described uh those challenges that you've overcome and, and I think throughout, we've heard about uh a number of successes and maybe, maybe things that you wouldn't even frame as successes because you're just going about living your life. But um what are some of your, your proudest moments? Um There, they have been a lot. So you, you know, well, you could, you could start steering the ship away from this at any point. Uh, one of the proudest moments personally I've ever had is that, um, in 2020 I was teaching at Vines High School and that was the pandemic. And, um, I had, prior to the pandemic, I had 15 students on my robotics team and we had done fairly well the season before that, um, the second season, it went down to 55 kids. Um, and, you know, I went through the ex existential crisis of like how I'm gonna have a team just five kids. Um, long story short, uh, mostly due to the delay in opening tournaments and things like that. We just, we started building a robot in August and then in end of June of the next year, it won state, right? That team of five students, one state of the state of Texas, uh tournament that year. And so, you know, and, um, without getting too much in the woods, uh, there was a need for those kids to have something to do. Right. Because they, they had been taken off and, and five was at least manageable pandemic wise in terms of my school rules. Um, you know, it's a fairly small pod if you want to call it that, um, and luckily the, the restrictions kind of went down as the school year went on. But I could have said, like, look, I'm not gonna deal with this after school, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, this, you know, I, I, you know, I, I feel like I served them as well as I needed to, right? And so, and they just gave, gave it back. There's this one kid, I'm gonna just give him a shout out. His name is Hammon Chandler. We were going to the state tournament and um the first part of a robotics tournament is that your robot drives autonomously, right? So it has to do a number of tasks all by itself without any driver control, which is really, that's the heart. And if you score as an autonomous, you get, you're almost guaranteed to win the match. And we had a pretty good autonomous program that we tweaked over and over and over. And I said, hey, Hamme Chandler, we're going, we're going to to this tournament. Um Our autonomous program is pretty good, but it's probably gonna conflict with our partner autonomous because you get randomly, you know, paired up at the beginning. It's like two on two basketball. And I was like, they're gonna have, they're gonna have 100% of the time programs. Why don't we just write these little bitty programs that just put extra points on to that? And I said, could you meet me up on here on Saturday and we'll just write autonomous program? Well, that kid wrote 30 programs for that robot, right? We were there for five hours, right? Those programs. And that ultimately is what really made us desirable. Uh Because as you progress in the tournament, other teams can pick you to be a partner and that made us like, really desirable that we could add on to something that somebody else had already perfected. Um So that was, that was a proud moment for me because there were just so many times that I wanted to like just throw in the towel um just because of pandemic learning. And so I really feel like the those five kids who put those efforts into that got for me what they deserved, right? They just like every, you know, and I didn't give up, right? And I would have felt that way, had we not even gone to the state? Right? So, you know, that was just the icing on the cake that we got to go to San Antonio and compete and, you know, be on top. So that, that's a proud moment. Um You know, like I said, playing at the Granada, I, I'm a big rem fan once again played very few rem songs in my own band. And so to get to play, we played the whole 1987 document record start to finish. Um, that wasn't my choice that not every song of that's a winner, but, you know, uh, so that was great just getting to learn all that. I met some fabulous musicians through that. Um, there were a bunch of other players that kind of helped out, well, maybe three other players that helped out that weren't regular members. Um, you know, but, you know, this is outside my family, right? Of course, raising a daughter who's now in school, in Boston, you know, all those kind of things, those have been proud movements in my life. But, you know, um you know, you know, I don't know, I mean, it's really hard being married for 23 years, right? I mean, I don't know, that's an accomplishment, right? Uh I kind of feel like in the 21st century, you know, people have a lot of options of how they spend their time, uh and who they spend it with. But, you know, being married for 23 years is very nice. It's, you know, a lot of, uh a lot of my accomplishments have to do with my wife Lynn, understanding who has also a need to create as well, need, you know, knowing how that helps your brain, right? And I, I'm, I'm very lucky to have found her uh uh you know, in my life. So how, how, how, you know, uh I did get fired from the Irving Symphony. So that, that's probably not one of the greatest accomplishments. Uh but it was really uh a wake up call because during the time I was playing with them, the University of North Texas brought in a world renowned base professor. And suddenly the whole metroplex market was like flooded with the Mi Michael Jordan's of base, right, who are willing to work at the price that Irving Symphony was paying them. So it was just, it was kind of a, a reminder that yes, your skills are only as good as your skills are and you can be in, in a situation like that, you know, if you're not continuing to improve, which I wasn't on upright base, I just had too many things going on, you know, other people will, will, will be better than you, you know, and that's, you know, that's a fact of life. Um Well, that's a, a pretty hard lesson. I don't know if it was getting fired, maybe let go or my contract wasn't renewed. I don't know, we can, we can put any euphemism on that, that you want, you want. No, that's, that's really brilliant. Um It reminds me of how you alluded earlier to how, when you teaching, there's a lot of things that you're trying to impart that go beyond what is just in the curriculum. Yes. Um, what, um, what do you think are the most valuable lessons that you're, you're passing on to your students? Well, I think, you know, high school, um, and it's interesting, I'm teaching primarily sophomores, 10th graders, you know, and for some reason if you took the 30 years of the, of high school that I've taught and made a graph of what grades I've taught, the sophomores would be like, five times as big as any other grade level. And so for some reason, sophomores find me or I find them and I think that year in high school, uh, there's a reason why we have that adjective sophomoric. Right? We don't have junior or senior. I, we have sophomoric. Uh, you're just about, you're waking up, you're, you're, it's really a bridge between adult and child, right? You're going kind of from late as adolescence to, I mean, middle adolescence to late adolescence and you're really becoming, there's that line in the song, um, Jack and Diane Diane, it's like, hold on to 16 as long as you can because changes come around real soon to make us women and men. Are you familiar with that line in the bridge? One of the greatest bridges of pop rock song from the eighties as far as I'm concerned. And, uh, you know, I kind of live by that. It's like, you know, and I think, I think the girls at Ursula are very lucky because they get introduced, they have to take a stem CS course it's not an option. They have to do it. And it, it, and I will, you know, it's not for everybody but everybody should be exposed to it. Right. I didn't become a historian. Right. Even though I love history, but I love the history that I like to study. Right. I didn't, you know, I'm, I couldn't really care less about the Samaritans. right? You know, but I do like history, right? So I just, I, I, you know, well, the Sumerians had did have a lot of technological, you know, things any anyway. So uh my point is is that, you know, the collaboration, the soft skills, that's really kind of what you're teaching um in high school, as well as, you know, being mature, sticking to a timeline, being organized. And I do think, you know, I've, I've taught enough to say, you know, I started teaching with a chalkboard and now, you know, I have this, you know, really fancy is all Microsoft school. So I have all this, you know, incredible Microsoft technology at my disposal. But with that, it's like a blessing and a curse. It's like the ease of it and, you know, it can also create distraction. So I like to model like, like, like I did with that lesson um about the, you know, creative commons. I like to like, I like to model like I'm, you know, I'm in I, I just gave my intro to robotics their last project and they have to kind of come up with something on their own that lights up and spins around and I gave them a lot of flex flexibility and then I said, ok, well, here's what I'm gonna do, like after they had already decided that they were gonna do because you can't tell them what you wanna do because then they'll all try to do what you're doing. Um That's just the nature of being a child. And so I'm like, ok, here's what I'm doing and they're like, that's so cool. You're gonna do it too. I was like, yeah, we're in this together, right? You're gonna see me fail, you're gonna see me cut a piece of like I decided I'm gonna have to use wood because that's a challenge for me, you know. So I think, and I was always, I, I loved like seventh grade shop class because I loved seeing my teacher make things. Right. And so I'm just trying to, you know, I'm just trying and I found this nice really video of, of this girl who makes stuff with this micro controller we're using and they're like, oh, that's so cool. And I'm like, well, you could do something like that. I mean, it's just pieces of cardboard and felt with some lights on it, you know. You know, we can, we can, you know, and I think there's a voice that. I don't know if today's kids are hearing it like me. It's like, well, everything I create has to be insta ready. Right. I have to, I'm like, no, no. Right. It's gonna, you know, it's gonna be messy. There's gonna be sawdust on the floor. You're gonna draw something ugly and correct it later. So that's what I'm trying. Especially with coding too because coding is like 90% failure until you get to success. And you just have to have the resilience, you know, to understand what the errors are telling you and fix the problems. That's beautiful. Mhm Well, in, in the interest of keeping uh two time as you, as you mentioned, we're going to move to a uh a segment that we call our rapid fire questions. OK. I'll try to be short. OK. So first question, what's your favorite part of the creative process design? Designing? OK. Uh How do you want me to elaborate or, or just go well, um If, if there's more we, we're interested in design because that's where you get to dream big and, and, and without reality and if you can do that, you're gonna come up with something cool I love and I, now that's cool. Hm. Uh Next question, how does community fuel your creativity? Obviously, collaboration, collaboration. Um You know, music is a very collaborative art. Um And I, I really feel like just being able to, you know, talk um you know, talk about music, talk about what you love about music. Um, and then go try to make music that's similar or your own, that's really where it lives. And I, I, you know, I'm, I'm lucky to have in a lot of my context. People could say like, hey, do you wanna try this? And if they had the time they'd probably say yes. Awesome. Um Last question, what motivates you to create. I think it's a stress relief personally. I mean, it, it is, it is a time to relax my mind. Um, you know, in a non chemical way, I guess. Right. Uh, uh So I really, I think it is like I can tell when I haven't, like, I, I spent four hours in my office because I just moved, you know, moving things around. But I did spend some time doing some design stuff just because I need that, that, you know, um, relaxation that when I was showing that design to the girls, they were like, well, you could make money off of this. And I said, well, then it becomes work, right? It becomes work. And, you know, I have to please somebody else, somebody is paying me for my service instead of just accepting what upgrade. Right. And so, you know, that to me would not be relaxed. I love it. Yeah, that's a pretty powerful, you know, I mean, I'm lucky that I don't have to rely on that to, to feed myself. But, you know. Yeah, the create for just the sake of creation. Yes. I mean, I mean, I want my stuff to please other people but I don't care if it does. Yeah, I have a Facebook, uh, album called Disturbing Pictures of Me Drawn by students. And so which I, I take is almost one of the highest compliments. Right. And, uh, like this one kid, this is, this is before, kind of like school violence was the thing. Drew, you know, drew me in a mortal combat situation. I don't know if you're familiar with the, right? And, and sometimes I said on the Facebook folder, like sometimes these were presented to me willingly and sometimes I it was found on the floor, you know, so, you know, and I kind of like that art I think, you know, I just, you know, I like you, you felt the need to create. Now you do have to listen to what I'm trying to tell you for, for the work you're supposed to be doing, but you found this time to create. Um And I was the source of inspiration anyway. So I, I love that, you know, that, that last point that you hit on about how we need to create. I mean, that is what defines culture and it is kind of what it is that sets humans apart from uh the other animals. You know, once we have our needs taken care of, we can leave our mark and we can learn from each other in ways that aren't just the, the kinds of rote things that are passed down. They're not the, not things that you find in books but things that make the spirit soar. Well. And, um, to follow up on that, um, I have a good friend Russell who, who's in my Oliver's army band and he's, he's a good musician, good father. Um, credible. He also is a history teacher, high school history teacher who's taught a course called The Theory of Knowledge. And he starts off the theory of knowledge class saying humans have been smart for a long time, right? You have to get it into your head, right? And so, you know, they developed, you know, weapons of war, they developed art, right? And if it was just the first cave dweller, putting their hand on, on the cave wall and then, you know, filling their mouth with a pigment and spraying it on there, you know, that, that is the impetus of humanity, right? We're, we're leaving our mark in some way for the future to see. Um, and, you know, I do hope we're living in a world that is, is more hospitable. Uh But, you know, and, you know, and when I get down about that, I'm like, well, what can I, what can I do now about it? Well, I can create something that somebody else might want to use and, and, you know, now I have the ability to distribute it and give it to him for free. You know, I might wrote, I'm not a songwriter, right. In fact, I've written one song in my whole life and that's because the guys, I was in a band, they were just pestering me to write a song. So I wrote a country song about the D Train. OK? And each verse in it is a girl that, like, basically dumped me. Uh So the, they were like, well, why did you put, put each girl in the song? I was like, because that's all I, that's all I got, right. That's all I got for this, right? So most people spend their whole lives with their heart breaks being like, I Taylor Swift, I mean, she's like, she's mine this for, for, for, for years, right? Uh Putting their heartbreaks into all their creative work and I was like, no, I'm just gonna do it in a four minute country song. So, anyway, that's beautiful. Yeah. Well, Michael, this has been a blast. We have really enjoyed hanging out with you. Well, thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It's been quite a pleasure. You have quite the stories. It's just so much. Well, I hope it makes good listing for your listeners. Absolutely. All right.