#003: The Journey of Creativity and Belonging: Maddox's Story

Yes, everything that we do, you and I do now that's creating this business, this podcast, all the artwork that I create for it, creating the events, it's highly creative. It's not art. It's not art and a lot of it, some of it's visual, you know, the, the branding for the, for this, I, I do that and, and I'm not trained at that. I've developed the skill just because I wanted to learn how to do graphic design. I do all of our graphic work and I get a lot of compliments on it and I have no formal training whatsoever. It was just something that I wanted to learn to do, but yes, creativity has, I mean, everything we're doing right now is. Creating in support of Other creatives, our, our creative community. Hello and welcome to another edition of For the Love of Creatives with your connections and community guys, Maddox and Dwight. I'm Dwight and today I'm joined by Maddox. He is taking the spot of the featured guest. So, welcome Maddox. Yeah, I get to tell my story today. This is the, the fun part to be on the other side of the camera. Yeah, well, I, I know that there's a lot of people who might know a little bit about your story, uh, a lot of people who may have just met you, and some people who may not have heard anything about you at all. So why don't you just give us a little bit of an overview of who Maddox is and what he's about. Well, um, you know, I would say that I'm, I'm a softy. I'm a big old teddy bear and a heart. I got a heart and um. You know, I identify as an intuitive. I identify as an empath. I feel other people's feelings. I can sense energy in a room, um, for what I do or what I've done, I am a retired salon professional. I retired at the end of 2019 after 40 years of beauty service. Um, uh, I retired from the industry. I didn't retire from the workforce or, or life, uh, cause, cause here we are, you know, this, this is a job to me. It's, it's a job I love, but it, it is work, um. I would say that um I definitely consider myself a creative, and I think that's why I'm, I'm just, this is such a good fit for me. I've been creative all my life. Cool. Well, and that's, uh, definitely something that I share. I mean, this is something that is a lot of hard work at times and I'm glad to be in the trenches with you. So, full disclosure, Maddox and I are partners in this work that is for the love of creatives and in life. Yes. So he's my person. Oh, you're my person. Uh, why don't you tell us a little bit about some of your earliest memories with, well, with creativity. You know, I've been kind of thinking about this a little bit and, and continuing to think about it and there were some things that came up first and then there were some things that came up second that I wouldn't have considered and didn't think they would come up. I would say my early members of creativity were a mixed bag. As a small child, it was, it was good memories. Um, I guess maybe the thing that I remember first that had something to do with creativity was Watching my father hand make toys for me, you know, at that time in our family there, although, you know, um, my, my dad worked and, and of course made a living for the family. It was, there was not a lot of um excess and so, um, he had to get creative at times and he made me toys. He made me. Um, like I don't even know what we'd call it. It was kind of a top that flew, and he, he made it out of like a, a pencil and some string and a, um, Empty spool of thread and a, a, a coffee can lid that he cut and twisted and to make blades out of it and it would you'd pull that string and that thing would fly up in the air and it was just the coolest thing as a kid, he made me, um, he makes me some stilts one time out of wood and I learned to walk on those stilts and I would walk all over the neighborhood. In those stilts. I was the only kid that had stilts. You know, I, I look back on all the things that I had and did as a kid and, and I kind of feel sorry for children today because They just have screens that they look at all the time and. I don't know. I look back with fond memories on, on that aspect. Um, he made me a go-kart one time with, you know, made it out of plywood and he repurposed a skateboard and he repurposed some Uh, wheels off of a lawn mower and it was just the coolest thing, you know, you'd, you'd get at the top of the hill and everybody would push and you'd fly down that hill and that go-kart and all the kids, you know, wanted turns riding on it. It was, it was just, just very fond memories of, of creativity before I started being creative myself. Oh, it sounds magical. You know, as, as you share those stories, I'm reminded of what it was like for me being a kid in the 80s and uh having to come up with adventures with the kids in the neighborhood, and I too can look at how something is lost because kids today are just looking at screens. You know, I remember making Christmas tree forts after Christmas. I remember getting in an old truck tire and taking turns rolling each other down the hill inside that truck tire. I, as a, as a kid, I loved Hot wheel cars and I would draw entire cities on the driveway so I could drive my hot wheels around the city. And, and then there was the dark side of creativity, and this came actually this morning. I was just thinking about my, my creative experience overall in anticipation of this, um, conversation and You know, when I became a teenager, I was bullied a lot in school, like a lot, and, and I, and I can look back and realize that there was creativity in learning how to avoid the bullies. There was creativity in. Learning how to make myself as invisible as possible, so I didn't get the crap beat out of me or, or, or, you know, just get ridiculed in front of the entire student body. um. It, it was, to be honest, uh, a painful time, um, but it's had some definite, you know, as I've, I've come through adulthood, even though it was a rough time in my life and it lasted for several years, it contributed to me in ways that I wouldn't trade for for all of the. A lot of money in the world. Yeah. And I, I remember listening to how you'd share uh just little glimpses into what that was like in your, your prior podcast and the authentic gay man podcast. You, I remember you would say quite often that as horrible as it was, you wouldn't trade all of that pain because it was so much a part of who you are, you know, I think I realized that everything that I went through. Was the equivalent of a blacksmith taking a a piece of metal and forging it into something a tool or a sword or something useful. Um, all the bullying forged me into the man I am today and. I'm quite fond of the man I am today. I, I, I love the man I am today and I wouldn't be that man if, if I hadn't gone through all of that. So where I would never want to relive it, I would never wish it on my worst enemy. I wouldn't, if I could rewrite history, I wouldn't rewrite it. That's, that's uh A beautiful sentiment, and I know it took a lot of work to to appreciate the bitter with the sweet. It did take a lot of work. You know, look, looking back and, and the brighter side again of, of creativity, um, as I said earlier, there, there wasn't a lot of excess finances in my family and so, you know, whatever, we, we didn't get new Christmas decorations every year. It was just whatever we had and, and they were there for the duration of my childhood until I grew up and, and left home and Um, you know, my mom would marvel every year at Christmas because I was the decorator. You know, I would pull all those Christmas decorations out and she'd say, oh my God, you just amazed me how you take the same old tired decorations every year and make it look different every year. You know, and, and, and, and I did, and, and I, I thought there was great joy in that at that time in my life. It was a very fun thing to do to, to figure out how I could make it look better and different than it did last year, even though it was the same decorations. Yeah. Well, and, and I see that take shape and things that you do uh up to this day. Uh, a lot of people who might know you casually think that you're really friendly and easygoing. But I know that you are also a perfectionist, and you have a strange visual sense that is so keen and so perfect. Uh, and I, I've noted that whenever you enter a room, if things are placed differently. You, you have to adjust them to be in exactly the right place. There's probably a little OCD there, you know, and I will say that I am not even a fraction of the Perfectionist that I once was. I, I refer to myself as a perfectionist in recovery. Um, I've let go of a lot of that. Um, I, I still very much believe in excellence, and I want things to be good, and I want things to be great, but I've, I've kind of let go of the perfection thing. Oh it's good that you can let go of it because there's a point at which it controls you. Well, and I don't know, you know, perfection in, in creativity is can be the death. Perfectionism can be the death of creativity because you never ever get to true perfection. It's a myth. It doesn't exist. And so we're trying to create something that's perfect and it's not gonna happen. And as long as that's our goal, we never get it finished and we're never happy with it. And I see that a lot in in other creative people, it is um it's, it's a creative killer. Yeah. And I know that uh that journey for you speaks a lot to your own personal growth, and I know that you've done a lot of personal growth work. How, how has that informed your choices for, well, for how you uh Earned a living and you know, all of the things that you tried, all the, all the things that you, uh, well, all of the other ways that you have uh tried to engage and build community over the years. You know, that's an interesting question and I'm not sure I have an answer for that. I have in my lifetime done a tremendous amount of Personal growth work, in fact. Um, sometime this coming year in 202025 makes. Um, Literally 40 years that I have very intentionally and consciously been on a spiritual path. Now I believe we're all spiritual beings, so we're all on a spiritual path, but there's a lot of people that aren't really conscious of that and it's not intentional. For me, it became intentional in 1985. I remember where I was, what I was doing and who I was with. It was an experience that changed my life forever. Um, and I have pursued growth and deeper awareness work for Well, since then, since then. And I wouldn't trade that for anything either, you know, if you, if you could say, OK, we'll, we'll give you. Elon Musk's money, if you give up everything you've learned in all of your personal growth work, I would say no way, Jose. I love that. It's that valuable to me. But you know, I, I, I look back and I, I, I'm trying to think how that's played a role in my creative life, um. I think that there is a connection there. I've never really given it a lot of thought, but I do think that when we start to create. It is such a form of our deep self-expression. Um, You know, when I think about all the heads of hair that I cut and colored and styled over that 40-year career. Um, I put everything I had into that. You know, it wasn't just a job at all. It wasn't just a job. I took it very seriously and my clients were ultimately important to me and my creations were about them and for them. It was about supporting them and feeling better about themselves, helping them discover who they were. I, I always felt like there was something that was different about me and that I would watch other Hair people and, and they would just, you know, whatever the style of the day was when Dorothy Hammel's wedge became popular, every client got a Dorothy Hammel wedge, you know, and, and likewise with the bearing different other styles, the fair faucet feathers. I always tailored my work to really, really fit. The client and it wasn't just to fit the way they looked. But it was to fit their personality and so I had to get really, really creative in How to really get clear and determine their personality, you know, especially when you've got a brand new client, they come in, you have a few minutes of conversation where you question them and you discover what they want, what they think they like. I was less, I, I mean, I was interested in what they wanted, but I also was more interested in what they needed. And oftentimes what people want and what they need are two different things. And so I would listen to what they wanted and then I would ask them, are you open to something different, perhaps? Sometimes they were, sometimes they weren't. If they were, I would tell them my vision, but that vision was always about not just what they looked at. It wasn't the texture of their hair, the shape of their face, or the size of their body that played a role, absolutely. But I got really, really adept at sizing people up really fast. I could ask key questions in that first few moments of our, our, um, discussion and, and our, um. Uh, my words are eluding me right now, but, um, our consultation, yeah, yeah, and I could get enough of a feel of their personality that It was about what they look like, but it was always also about who they were. You know, we've all seen somebody that had a haircut that didn't fit their personality at all. You know, I studied and learned makeup. I could be creative with color. Uh, it was a fabulous career, but I would say at the end of the day, as much as I loved doing hair, the highlight was always my clients. It was always the community and And I say community because it was my community, but it wasn't really a true community because most of them didn't know each other. Sure, I was always the common denominator. Um, sometimes they knew each other because clients would refer clients to me. But um. You know, by the time I retired, my body was really ready to step away from the chair. I'd been standing on my feet for 40 years, and I, there was a career before that, that I'd stood on my feet. I was ready to get off my feet, but I wasn't ready to say goodbye to my clients. Yeah. You know, creativity has always been Something that I did with somebody or for somebody. I, I, I don't think I ever really, really thought of it in all that time as a collaboration, but I can look back now and see, oh indeed it was very much a collaboration, you know, because I would create what I created, but then the collaboration I had to have their support or. They go home and never make it look like I made it again, you know, um. So Yeah I would say yes, everything that we do, you and I do now that's creating this business, this podcast, all the artwork that I create for it, creating the events, it's highly creative, it's not art. It's not art and a lot of it, some of it's visual, you know, the, the branding for the, for this, I, I do that and, and I'm not trained at that. I've developed the skill just because I wanted to learn how to do graphic design. I do all of our graphic work and I get a lot of compliments on it and I have no formal training whatsoever. It was just something that I wanted to learn to do, but yes, creativity has, I mean, everything we're doing right now is. Creating in support of Other creatives, our, our creative community, and it wouldn't be. To me nearly as fun or as much satisfaction. If those people that we do this with in in mind and and for. We're not there, it wouldn't be nearly as. Fulfilling Yeah, I, I have the advantage of, of knowing some of the stories that you've shared. And so, as you're relating this, I can see the thread of that connection that comes from community throughout all the things that you've done. Whether it was talking to the old ladies in the family business and your dad telling you you couldn't spend so much time with them. Or whether it was pulling people together in your project that was foreman only. Where you had uh built a community around people getting together and uh and just having a good time. And It's I get goosebumps because I I think about how I, upon uh early in our meeting, got that treatment that you talked about with your, your clients for hair. You did it for my own. Appearance because I was in a state where I couldn't see myself. And you, you remember how you phrased it, what you said to me? I do. We had only been dating for a few weeks. And um I mean a little backstory here, you know, he was very overweight at one point in his past before we met, you know, by the time I met him, he was thin and felt like he is now. But he was, I mean, the night he showed up for our first date, he had on fat clothes. They were got to be 4 sizes or more larger than he was, you know, the pants were belted up and the shirt, the little wedge, you know, the little seam of your shirt was just hanging way off of, of his shoulders and, um, You continued, you know, to kind of show up as we, as we were seeing each other and dating, wearing clothes that were way too big and At one point, I remember telling you, I just asking you, would you let me take you shopping? And you, you know, you bristled up right away. You were like kind of like, that doesn't sound like fun. No, I don't want to do that. I said, you know. You don't have to buy anything, just. Just go out with me and just, I, I want you to see you through my eyes. That's what I told you. I just want you to see you through my eyes. And so we went out, we, the first store we stopped at, we spent the whole afternoon in. I had him trying on everything in the store and I, I can remember. You know, it, uh, at one point I, I, I said, try these pants on. He goes, I'm not feeling those pants. And, and I had told him a little story about a client that I'd worked with many, many years ago and it was, you know, a chunky little girl that I had told her to put a dress on that had an elastic waistband, and she looked at me like I was crazy and I said, just go in the dressing room and put it on and she came out and looked in the mirror and she had a waist for the first time in her life. And it was so overwhelming to her that tears streamed down her face. And so that day when you said, I'm not feeling those pants, I said neither was that chunky girl that I worked with way back there. Go in the dressing room and put those on. But the funny thing is he came out of the dressing room and he's walking back up to the store where I was across the store. One of the sales clerks, female says to him, wow, those look great on you. I was sold. Yes, but you know, at the end of the day, I was like, OK, that was fun, let's go. I was just ready to go. And he scooped up everything that he had tried on, all of it. Carried it up to the register and bought everything that he had tried on. And, um, you know, in the, in the days and weeks that followed, he would put that clothing on and I would watch him and he would walk differently. You know, it was like he'd put that outfit on and he'd be sashaying around the house, you know, like a little rooster, a bandy little rooster or something. It was just, it was cool to see. And, and that's some form of creation, you know, I saw something in you that you didn't see in yourself, and I wanted you to see it. You know, I took him out and he had some. Grandpa. Glasses on the the the eyewear was like something you'd see grandpa wear. We went out and got eyewear, you know, and it's it, yeah, it's been, yeah, it's been fun. Yeah, I, I, I never knew. I, I, um, it was the first time that that I ever tried on. Designer frames like that. I didn't know who Philip Bly was and Uh, the, the frames that I have are, are distinctive and, you know, all the, the pairs that you wear are amazing. Well, and everywhere we go. People will stop us and say, oh my God, both of you, you're wearing such fabulous eyewear. Everywhere we go, you know, and that's not the reason we do it though. I don't, you know, that's not it. Now, I, I really feel what it is to have um a, a sense of self-actualization, something that comes from the inside that expresses on the outside, and I I know that that would not have been possible without you. Thank you. Thank you for trusting me. It's been fun, you know, we still continue to shop together. Yeah, he, he goes in and pulls an outfit out of the closet and comes over and says, what do you think of this? Sometimes he's spot on, sometimes I go, hm no, not quite, you know, and we'll work on it a little bit, but. Um, that's been a big form of creativity for me in my life. My wardrobe has always been a huge point of creativity, and I marched to the beat of a different drummer. I don't buy what everybody else is wearing. I, I don't want to look like a clone or like everybody else. I want to look like me and I wear bright colors and I like different styles and shapes and I love shoes and boots and I have a closet full and I'm not afraid to express myself. You know, but I do it for me. I, I don't do it trying to impress anybody. I don't buy designer labels. I just buy what I like. It's, yeah, it's, it's for me. That's really cool. It's, it's about, you know, when I get it all on and look in the mirror before I walk out the door to go wherever I'm going, it's the way I feel when I look in the mirror and see that I put on something that really expresses who I am on a deeper level. You know, it takes a lot of courage to walk against the grain like that. Uh what, what was it that inspired you to Figure out who you really were and to wear what really suited you. You know, I would have to say it, it goes back to the bullying. You know, when, when you're bullied, or for me, when I was bullied, I did everything I could to make myself invisible. Well, we as human beings, all of us, every single frigging one of us, we have an innate need to be seen. But in order to be safe, I couldn't allow myself to be seen, so I went through all of my years of school, all the whole enchilada, hiding, not allowing myself to be seen. I had few friends. I was very quiet and shy, and I stuck to myself. I had a couple of friends. Um, wasn't engaged in hardly any extracurricular activity in school, what just did as little as I could do to get away from that place because it was. It It was painful, yeah, but when I finally got away from all that and started to Find out who I was, you know, to get in touch with me. And there wasn't, you know, there's a point where the kids kind of stop bullying you, you know, by the time I There was a little bit of bullying in college, but there was a point where that kind of went away and bullying didn't, didn't happen so much anymore, maybe a little verbal bullying, but not the part that made me feel physically unsafe. I stopped getting beat on and it began to be a little bit safer to be seen. And so at that point, you know, The combination of really wanting to be seen and, and then also at age 24 coming out as a gay man, I, I, I, I, I burst out of that closet. It wasn't a subtle thing, you know, I, I came out like a fireworks and I just wanted to, to, to express myself in whatever way that looked like. And it mostly showed up in the different hairstyles that I wore and the jewelry and the clothing and the and the shoes. I, I, I love it all. I love it all, but it, it was, it was definitely a Emergence from the darkness of having to hide. And it's been a journey, you know, it's, it's been a journey because I think that maybe for many years I did things that got me attention because I thought that would make me feel seen. I didn't realize that there was a very distinct, it was only been in the last few years. That I have realized that getting attention and being seen are two completely different things, right, that Getting attention is something that's very fleeting. It lasts for a few moments. It's gone and then you need more. It's like a drug that you need more. You know, hence why we need likes on our posts, you know, on, on social media and on the and, and it's, it's a, it's something that can never be satiated. I, I've definitely discovered that. A need for attention can never be. Satiated yet the need to be seen. When somebody actually sees you, it has a. A longer effect it lasts, it hangs with you. And it is something that can be satiated. You can be made whole by Being seen But I'm gonna slide in there that, you know, through all my personal work, what I've learned is it is once again, it's about me, you know, I had to be willing to see myself before others could truly see me. Yeah, you know, I had, I had to be able to validate myself, you know. Getting attention is constantly needing somebody to tell you that you're OK or or that you're enough or that you're this, you're pretty enough or you're smart enough or this or that. Whereas And once again, don't take my word for this. This is my experience. I'll own this, but I encourage you to check it out. Being seen Is when we learn how to validate ourselves. Yeah And when we learn how to truly validate ourselves, we don't give a shit whether anybody else validates us. But oddly, because we've validated ourselves, now the whole world shows up wanting to validate us. I get way more validation now from others. Than I did before I could validate myself. It's very ironic how that works. But I have less need for it now. When I really needed it, I couldn't find it. And when I didn't need it any longer, it started to flow. I, I get validated all the time, yet I don't really feel like I need it. I'm I'm reminded, as you're sharing that, of the way that RuPaul used to close. Uh, his show. Uh, he would always say. If you can't love yourself. How in the hell can you? Um Love anybody else or expect anyone else to love you. Both work, yeah, completely. I, you know, I know for me and, and, and I, this is all this ties all ties into creativity. I just wanna, wanna say this, it sounds like we're on some personal growth journey, but creativity is personal growth. The, the more I found me, the more aware I became of me, the more I love me, the more creativity I have access to. The more the more ideas, the more creativity that comes. To me and through me. Because I have done the work. Yeah. Well, It sounds like the bullying presented you with such great challenges. And it's been such a part of. Who it is that you were the man that you've become. What other challenges have you had to overcome? Hm. That's a good question. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm sure there's a lot, but I'm trying to think if there's something, you know, significant. I mean, I, I, you know, I think that there was a certain level of challenge in coming out as a gay man, not so much now in 20, soon to be 25, but I came out in 1981 in a small town in central Texas. Where it was not OK, you know, um. It was It was probably one of the biggest decisions and biggest challenges of, of my life. And, and we think, you know, oftentimes I think people who haven't experienced coming out as, as gay, they think once you do it, it's just done. But it's not, you know, it's, it's not because We live in a world that it was just a continual coming out. Every new person I met, every new relationship, every new friendship, it. And, and then there was this point where I realized that. Yes, I'd come out to my family and I'd come out to my clients and I had come out to my friends and there wasn't anybody that didn't know, you know, I'd come out and yet there was still struggle. And, and I can look back now and realize the struggle was. Because somehow I wasn't at peace with it. I could say the words I'm gay. I was living a existence as a gay man. And, and yet I wasn't at peace with it. You know, uh, this is a real thing and it's rampant in the LGBTQ community and, and that is internalized homophobia. Mm. Yes. You know, I, I, I, there was a point when I realized that I had gotten an acceptance from everybody around me, but I hadn't fully accepted myself. I was still Not fully comfortable with who I was. And, and, and when, when I got clear on that, then I began to do what I needed to do to come to that place of full acceptance. Like I, and, and when I did that coming out ended like I don't. I don't come out anymore, you know, I mean there was a time when I, I just got to where I don't have to tell anybody I'm gay anymore. I, I, I can remember the day that I was with a client. She was a brand new client. We didn't know each other and we're getting acquainted while I'm cutting her hair and she made some comment about, well, you know, my husband this, that. And I said, oh girl, you know my boyfriend does the same thing. And It was this day where I realized I didn't have to tell anybody that I was gay. I could just talk about my life openly and honestly, just the way anybody else would refer to my mate. have no problem saying, oh, you know, he, and it was a game changer. Yeah, huge game changer. Uh, I'm reminded again of the way RuPaul closed out the show. Each week. And, you know, as, as you're relating that story, uh, I've, I've shared with you, uh, that what you're describing is the, the nicer world that they created in Schitt's Creek, where sexual orientation just didn't matter. Well, it doesn't have to and it shouldn't. Um, You know, I, I think once again bringing this back to creativity. How can we? Fully embrace our creativity if we haven't fully embraced ourselves. Yes. I don't think it's really possible. I think that that our, our access to creative energy, creative ideas, all of that comes from our ability to fully embrace ourselves as a whole human being. I don't think I would be nearly as creative if I hadn't done the work that I do. I don't, I don't have creative block. Like, you know, there may be an idea that I have to, to trickle on for a day or two sometimes, but I I've learned how to just get access to that creative energy like on command. Mm. Just on command. And, and the creativity that flows to me is more than I can manage. I discard a lot of it because there's not enough bandwidth to act on all of the creation that comes to me and through me. And I'm, I'm looking at examples of it now on, on screen. I mean, the, aside from the, the set that you've created for yourself, the background with authentic, uh, uh, above the, the cabinet above you and the painting that's just over your shoulder on the wall, and, uh, the one that's behind me, you know, those are Maddox's originals. I did paint for a period. He's not talking about the blue-green one back there. He's talking about the colorful one back over here. That's my painting, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, creativity is run through my veins all of my life. I, I, I've always danced, not professionally, but I've always danced. And I have um. played the piano at one point in my life. I, I sang in choirs. I've done a lot of stuff that was creative and very little of it, well, you know. There was a lot of it that had nothing to do with a job or making money. Um, I, I, creativity, I don't know where I'd be without it. Mhm. It's such a big part of my life. Well, I feel like we've covered quite a bit in this session. Uh, is, is there anything else that you think that our listeners should know about Maddox as they, uh, continue to To, to listen, um, you know, anything that would be Foundational for them to kind of know who you are and what you're about. You know, I'm a lover of people. I think that the The thing that has Put fire in my soul for so much of my life has been bringing people together. And that was a form of creativity as well because we all know people that bring people together and fail horribly at it. You know, I, I was always looking for innovative and creative ways to bring people together and for a variety of different reasons. You know, I, it doesn't matter where I am. If I hear somebody say, oh, I need, if I've got somebody in my circle of influence that can supply whatever that need is, I am doing whatever I can to connect them. That's beautiful. Because I think we're better together in every regard, we're better together. I'm an advocate of um. Resource sharing. I'm an advocate of collaborations. I'm a an advocate of community all the way. I have some very specific thoughts about, you know, what community is and what it isn't, and, uh, we will certainly address that in a different episode on a different day, um, but, but yes, um. We live in a world where loneliness has become an epidemic. And There is a high percentage of our creative community. That create in solitude. And I don't, I don't personally believe that is the most effective way to mine your creativity. Or to manage your creativity or to take advantage of your creativity. I think there are some things that must be done in solitude. If you're writing a book, you probably can't do that in a room full of people talking. There are some things that require solitude, but I think it is a part of your process. It's not all of it, you know, I, I think that even if you have something that requires this quiet concentration to create, there are other aspects that go around that, the way you promote it, the way you sell it, the way you show it, whatever it is. That's where you bring the community. The collaboration, the co-elevation in, because if we don't have that, we are not meeting our potential most likely. Uh, there's nothing's absolute. But I firmly believe that if you really want to. Reach your potential as a creative, whatever that looks like. The likelihood of you getting there is going to be far stronger if you surround yourself with a community of people who love you, support you, believe in you. And have your freaking back. We all need that and we all benefit from that. And if there, if there's people out there listening going, oh, but no, I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert, so you don't know, you don't need to play that card with me. We as introverts, we need quiet time to recharge our batteries. We need quiet time to reflect and to go in. It's very, very important, but even sunshine burns if you get too much. Amen. You know, you, you can take the time that you need and balance it. With time in community. Because too much solitude. Can be As it can be worse than not enough. Mhm. In my humble opinion, Well, those are Some incredible thoughts, some deep deep knowledge, and I'm sure that It's uh Gonna give people a lot of food for thought. Thank you. I hope so. You know, I will say this is where my heart is. I don't say this shit to just hear myself talk. I hope somebody out there is listening and gets something valuable out of my story and what I share. My whole existence has been in service to others. Oh, it's beautiful. Um, I'd like to move us on to the, the portion where we engage in some rapid fire questions. Are you, you ready to, to give some rapid fire answers? I'm as ready as I'm gonna be. I've not been on the other side of this. I ask lots of rapid fire questions, but this is my first time to have to answer them, so we'll see how I do. All right, well. Uh If you could go back and talk to that little boy who is bullied so horribly. What encouragement would you give him? What advice would you, would you impart? Given your, your life's knowledge. You know, I don't know that it would have been in advice, but if I could go back and speak to that little boy during those toughest times when he was being Bullied so horribly. I would just let him know that I was there and that I had his back. That I would do everything I could to take care of him and protect him. That I didn't have any quick fix or any simple answer. But that I was there, that I loved him. And that I would do what I could to protect him. And take care of him. It would be a, I gotcha. I love that. You've mentioned that you've tried your hand in a lot of creative pursuits. Are there Any creative pursuits that you have uh tried and uh Run away from because they were not your cup of tea. Oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm sure there, there are. Um, You know, as that 40 year career salon professional, I for, for many of those years, I had a side hustle. You know, I, I was always doing things on the side. And um, I struck out in a lot of different directions and certainly bombed out many times, you know, had these lofty plans and then just bombed out and I used to feel bad about that and Um, used to feel like, oh my gosh, all the time and money that you wasted on those side hustles, and then there was a day when it all came into focus when I realized that I had learned incredibly valuable stuff from every side hustle. I had heard learned incredibly valuable stuff from every mistake and and every failure, and none of the time or the money was wasted because I had learned so much. And I realized that I had done all these wackadoodle things and, and I was training for something. Bigger And I'm still training for something bigger. And who knows whether I will ever. Get to You know, realize what that is. I don't know. I don't think that's the point. I think the point is to focus on the journey and enjoy everything you're doing as you're learning all this stuff for You know, um, Oh, you know what, what you just said, it, it's a, a hard lesson that some people never get to, get to learn. And I, I think that's Really valuable and important. It's a a real step up in your own journey toward your your maturation. You know, I think it's a lot on how we choose to look at things. If I looked from a financial standpoint with each of those side hustles, I would have to call them a failure. But if I look around from a different vantage point. And look at all the people that I met and connected with, all, all of the impact that I had on, on others. Um, The things that I learned and the growth and the emotional maturity that I acquired through all that. We often stick our label of success based on one thing, and that is did it make money, you know. And that's, in my opinion, a big mistake because that's only a per that's not even the biggest part. There's so much to our experiences. Would it have been great if some of those side hustles had made money? Yeah, sure it would have, but once again, you know, if I could rewrite history. I got some cool cool shit out of everything I did. I don't know. I don't, I don't, I think that. Um, The universe has been in my corner my whole life. Yes, I've been throwing some tough stuff, we all have, and I'm still standing, I'm still learning, I'm still growing, I'm loving life. What else is there? You know, At the age I am now, I'm realizing it's less about the. Destination, it's more about the journey. I don't know whether I'm gonna reach the the place that I'm going to right now. May not. You know, may not. And that's OK, because Every day I get up and I get to do what I want to do. I get to bring people together. I get to be creative. I get to spend time working on this with you, uh. Does it get any better? I don't know. I don't think so. If it does, oh my God, but you know. One last question. I know that you prefer. The Atlantic over the Pacific. And I know that Everything is that much better. When it shared How would you describe Your ideal beach getaway and Who are the people that would be there with you? Oh my goodness, I mean my beaches, the beach is my favorite place in the whole world, sand and sun and ocean, um. Mountains in the background and palm trees. I tropical is the way to go, and you know that about me. And of course it would be with you. Well, who else? It would be with you and Um, some exotic place that I haven't been to that has just pristine beaches. I want to, I love that really fine white sand, or I would love to see a black sand beach. I've never seen that. I've seen photos. I would love to see a black sand beach. Um, warm water. Um, good seafood. And wonderful sights to see and and friendly indigenous people of that part of the world. I love Being around people that are different than me. I have always all my life, loved that, um, and, and that's one of the reasons that we Build so much diversity intentionally into our events and into everything we do. Because there's this magic that happens in the room when you put people together that on the surface look completely different. But if they spend a little bit of time with each other, they find that they are more alike. On a deeper level than they would have ever dreamed. And that's the way I believe we're going to heal this planet. That's the way I believe we're gonna heal humanity. By Recognizing and noticing the differences at a distance, but really being willing to come in close enough. To discover the similarities. Yes. When you get in closer, the things that really matter. I believe that's how we will heal humanity. And I want to be on the first wave of that.